Hardball with Chris Matthews, Transcript 9/18/17 Mueller investigating social media - new york times chinese restaurant review hot dish

Display: HARDBALLDate: guest of September 18, 2017: Chris Smith, Ted Johnson, Ken Vogel, Sheldon Whitehouse McCammond Alexi, Phil Lide, Astead HerndonCHRIS Matthews, host: camera capture.
Let's play hard ball. Good evening.
I'm Chris Matthews from Washington.
In today's New York Times exclusive report, we learned that the pressure of the Miller investigation is fuelling new divisions between the president's own legal team.
Two lawyers for the president, Thai Cobb and John ethical, we have recently overheard discussions about the ongoing debate between Trump's lawyers in the West Wing, debate on how many documents they should provide to special adviser Miller.
In any case, the scoop came from the New York Times reporter Ken Vogel, who took pictures of the lawyers at lunch last week.
It shows Tabo and John ethical sitting at the table next door and talking freely and loudly about the details of the Russian investigation on the BLT Steak in Washington.
That's Ken Vogel watching them listen.
Anyway, Washington, D. C. C.
By the way, you can see that it's only one block from the White House.
You can see it on the map.
I must say that it is right next door to the Washington bureau of The New York Times, and it is an inconvenient place for secret conversations.
Anyway, as Vogel described, the debate on legal strategy has brought Cobb into conflict with White House lawyer Don mcgang.
According to The Times today, Cobb seems more willing to work with Mueller's investigators.
Quote, "Cobb claims to hand over as many emails as possible
The special counsel requested that the Mail and documents for the investigation be concluded as soon as possible.
But Cobb is on a tit-for-tat with mccohn, who has expressed concern about setting a precedent that would weaken the White House . "
"Most notably, it was heard from Cobb that McGahn had several documents locked in a safe box and he seemed to suggest that he wanted to go.
Charming things.
At the same time, the NBC News reported that Trump's long-term
Michael Cohen, time private lawyer, will attend a closed-door meeting
Interview tomorrow in front of the staff of the Senate Intelligence Committee.
He may be asked about the Trump Tower the president proposed to build for Moscow.
This is his business plan.
A minute later, Ken Vogel will join us, who broke the story for The New York Times, and now with me is Heidi prizbila, White House reporter for USA Today.
Now, this tells me that when you find two guys having lunch on a steak a block away from the White House, they are arguing whether to give Miller what he wants or not, different point of view, talking about it loudly, you have to believe the man, Thai Cobb, although it is the name of baseball (INAUDIBLE)
Philadelphia a was around 100-this guy, Ty Cobb, had A weird handlebar beard-and if you follow Trump's clean logic, this guy will definitely think.
Why would he say, give them all the documents, and maybe more people in the White House say, no, don't give him everything.
You have to be careful here.
USA Today, political analyst at MSNBC: you read the story.
That's what he said, too. that's strange.
Can I back it up here, say how incompetent it is to do it in an open-air restaurant a few blocks from the White House, a few blocks from the New York Times, say that, oh, we lock the file in the safe, like, in the lens (ph)
A well-known reporter from The New York Times who reports on Russia.
But, yes, I don't think he might say that or that he thinks the Trump Tower conference itself is possible, but he doesn't say that the broader investigation doesn't make any sense.
He also said he was unable to access some documents due to tensions within the White House.
What we are seeing here is that while this may be a humorous Keystone Kops type of thing, what is even more disturbing is that the tensions that mark the White House are now affecting this legal team.
Chris, they can't let this happen.
They're facing 17-
The man Brussels army of Bob Miller.
What you see here is the same type of infighting that plagues the rest of the White House.
Matthews: but it reminds me of many aspects of the water gate incident because you have a lawyer-oh, wait, we have Ken Vogel.
Let's go now to Ken Vogel, the main character of the story. Mr.
Steal your own shots.
Thank you for joining us, Ken.
Tell us about optics.
You sit in the restaurant.
You know the two main members of the president's legal defense team are right next to you. Tell us more.
Ken Vogel, the New York Times: Yes, so I'm actually sitting there with a source, having lunch, trying to pay a little attention to what these people are talking about, but obviously, i'm talking to sources.
The source got up and left.
Dinner is over and lunch is over.
He said, are you coming?
I said, you know what?
I'll sit here for a while and have some more iced tea.
Of course, I was able to do all of these conversations by sitting there, on these incredibly sensitive issues related to the legal strategy in the Russian investigation, and these people had this rather rash conversation.
MATTHEWS: Well, you report that now the White House-as you have heard, White House officials have expressed this uncertainty privately, fearing that colleagues might be wearing a wire for whispering recordings.
This is scary.
According to your report, people in the White House are actually afraid of someone talking to them and they are really trying to make a little bit of an impact with the special advisor by wiring them and giving them some dirt.
Yes, that's right.
Of course, you have the necessary conditions to compete here.
You have people who are on the same side on the surface.
In a way, Miller and his prosecutors are looking at them.
But for the same reason, you know, they're also in different places in the survey.
So, for the benefit of Paul manafut, it may not be good for Jared Kushner or Mike Flynn.
The same can be said for lawyers representing members of the Trump family, the president himself and White House lawyers.
So we have differences on tactical issues, that is, the production of documents, but it also spreads to some kind of personality issue.
You have deep distrust and suspicion among these people until the extent to which we understand it, and we actually overheard Thai Cobb say, he thinks some of the lawyers in his team may be spies for Don McCann to talk to White House lawyers.
Obviously, this does not mean a courtesy and smooth interaction between legal teams.
MATTHEWS: Well, how did you do it-let's go back to that question (INAUDIBLE)restaurant.
Now, you are sitting at the booth next door, and obviously, at the table next door.
How did you take pictures of the two lawyers without Trump noticing them?
DoNews el: well . . . . . . Matthews: It looks like this is a very close shot. VOGEL: Yes.
I mean, I'm on my phone and I'm actually taking notes on my phone while pretending to be on the Internet or somewhere else not to attract attention.
But I did keep my phone at an angle and just took the camera the way I took this picture.
The goal is to record this, but also because I don't know John Dodd, a second lawyer.
Of course, Ty Cobb is very easy to identify due to the huge handlebar beard, but John ethics, the characters who are equally important in this regard, are not necessarily immediately recognizable.
So I sent that photo to my colleagues in the New York Times and asked them, who is this person who seems to be a member of the legal team talk?
They said, oh, that's John Dodd, the president's chief external lawyer.
Kind of put two and two together and realize, oh my God, I'm getting to know what's going on with the legal team in real time.
MATTHEWS: Well, let's talk about the substance here.
By the way, congratulate you.
These guys, tough guys like Dodd-he's one of the best lawyers I 've ever heard of-Trump is always right, Donald Trump is always innocent, Trump is always great, etc.
I mean, he's a typical lawyer.
He-and the idea that he doesn't have to be bugged-I can hear-what's going on-I want to get back to Heidi the next day.
But when Trump heard about his two top hard-
The lawyer who was bugged was not bugged.
No one bugged them.
They just sit next to them and listen to them.
He has to say, where did you go to law school?
What are you doing?
What did Trump say when he found out about your report?
We don't know much about Trump itself.
But we do know that John Kelly, the White House chief of staff, and Don McGahn, the White House legal counsel, are very unhappy to say a little.
On Friday, they called Ty Cobb and basically read him the riot act, saying that you can't talk about these incredibly sensitive information in such an obvious public environment, the concern here is not only to potentially reveal their tactics to the media, to hand their hands over to Miller, but also to potentially violate the lawyer --
Client Permissions.
Matthews: Heidi (INAUDIBLE)
Talking about the potential to tell us something here that we don't know about, a lawyer obviously wants them to give them a bunch of paper, give Mueller, hand over a lot of documents, as they said in the water gate incident, the limited hangouts are a bit of a hangout.
The other person said Stonewall, it was a suggestion for me, just as we were talking to Heidi-in this case, there was one person who was a lawyer, there is nothing to hide from the president.
Another said there are some things we don't want the public to know.
We don't want prosecutors to know.
Yes, they also . . . . . . Matthews: There are different opinions . . . . . . (CROSSTALK)
Matthews: May Thai Cobb not know the trouble that Tegra may have?
This is certainly possible.
I mean, he was referring to information that he didn't even have, documents that he didn't have, and he suggested that he wanted to show it to Miller.
He specifically mentioned two documents in the safe.
Now, we don't know what these files are saying and where they came from.
But, of course, the context of the dialogue suggests that Cobb wanted to produce the documents, which mcghain didn't.
Now, the allies of McGahn, the people we talked to, say McGahn-feel that his role in this is not just to help move the investigation out of Trump, it's the kind of agency that represents the presidency.
He is concerned that by making documents without a thorough review of whether they are possible, there may be presidential privileges that apply to them and are therefore rejected, or at least the result is edited that he may be bothering the Trump administration in the future, or he may be upholding privileges in this investigation or subsequent investigations, and may even bother the future president . . . . . . Matthews: this is the first time . . . . . . Vogel :. . . . . . Maybe . . . . . . Matthews: I don't believe it.
Okay, I don't believe it.
I have never heard that there are people in the Trump administration who are worried about this institution, nor about the future president.
I-I don't believe it.
Do you believe that . . . . . . Vogel: Well, Matthews :. . . . . . Don mcghain is worried about the future of the US president, who is working for Trump?
Can we point out here . . . . . . Matthews: I mean, it's hard to believe.
Przbyyla :. . . . . . Don McGahn-here's another factor at work, that is, Don McGahn is a lawyer with Trump throughout the episode.
Don mccohn, for example, was the former agent Sally Yates who went to warn the government of Michael Flynn, who misled people. He was lying.
He's lying to the vice president.
Don McGahn may also be involved in a number of incidents, including drafting a Comey dismissal letter, including an explanation for the Don, Junior, Trump Tower meeting.
So there's another factor at work here, that is, Don McGahn himself is likely to be a witness to this investigation. (CROSSTALK)
Matthews: By the way, Ken, I'm going to praise you for a new story you published in The New York Times, Miller's prosecutor told him
According to two people familiar with the matter, Manafort, Paul Manafort, they plan to sue him-are we close to taking action here against Paul Manafort, the first victim of the scandal?
Vogel: I certainly wouldn't be surprised if Paul Manafort was sued.
I don't know the schedule.
But you will see some people closer to Manafort who were summoned and testified before the grand jury, including his spokesman, Jason Maloney.
But the others we understand are in that core circle with Manafort and they do the work and are working for the Ukrainian regional party-pro
Russian parties in Ukraine that have not yet been contacted.
We're talking about people like Rick Gates. ph)
Manafort ranked second in Ukraine
So, before they are summoned by a grand jury or at least summoned, I would be surprised if we saw the indictment.
Matthews: What about Manafort in your report?
Yes, I mean, Manafort is in the quasi-star.
There is no doubt.
I think these prosecutors will be under pressure to sue someone, and if they can't get that kind of big prize, it's colluding with the Russians, between the Russians and the Trump campaign, people like Paul Manafort or Mike Flynn may fall.
Matthews: Everything we know, first Heidi, then Ken.
We 've all talked about it, and a lot of us are talking about the power of this prosecution team on this network.
Strengthened again today.
A top-notch woman in money laundering has just been brought into the case, a very top-notch person.
You put them in the face of this gang that can't shoot directly, and I was wondering that after going through this recent disaster, Trump might say, I lost the team here. I got problems.
Look, one of the things they want to avoid is it looks like they're trying to block it and it looks like they're not cooperating.
What did they do with this story?
I mean, one thing-one of the big things we get here is that you have a lawyer accusing another of actually trying . . . . . . (CROSSTALK)
Matthews: We all know that there is a safe now.
Vogel: it's going to fuel Mueller and inspire him to probably issue a subpoena, what does that make the White House look like?
It is trying to delay.
Matthews: let me in on the last question.
What happens if they call the safe and everything inside?
Can they do it?
I mean, this is very likely to happen.
In fact, our understanding is that what is happening now is the initial stage of document production, and what Cobb wants to do is go out ahead of time, show cooperation and avoid subpoenas.
But if Don mcghain goes his own way in this argument, and they don't produce something that is enough to satisfy Miller, then I think we will most likely see the summons, it's not just the documents in the safe, but a variety of documents. MATTHEWS: OK.
Thank you very much to Ken Vogel and Heidi prizbila.
Stand by, but (INAUDIBLE)right now.
Rhode Island Democratic Senator Sheldon Whitehouse joined me in this meeting, a member of the Senate Judicial Committee.
Senator Whitehouse, thank you for waiting for this.
What do you think of these two developments, and if you want, it's a "candid shot" where two lawyers for the president are debating whether to post the information they know the prosecutor wants? SEN.
Sheldon Whitehouse (D)
Well, it sounds like Paul Manafort got a target notice . . . . . . Matthews: Yes.
WHITEHOUSE: a search warrant.
So he was told they wanted to sue him, that's it.
This is part of the federal process.
But this is the first time we 've heard the news, so it's an interesting new fact.
This kind of key conversation between lawyers in public places obviously doesn't look very good.
I will add a third to what has happened in the past week, that is, Sarah Huckabee Sanders's three torpedo launches to James Comey, which opens up a whole new path for Mueller.
In the regulations on obstruction of justice, there are 1504 regulations that discuss attempts to influence large jurors. MATTHEWS: Yes.
WHITEHOUSE: the question with Sarah Huckabee Sanders is, who made you do it and who made you do it?
Once you know who it is, you will see their motivation.
If their motivation is to damage Jim Comey's reputation in the grand jury, you have another count in the indictment.
Matthews: What about the president doing the same thing to Comey, slandering him again and again after he was fired?
WHITEHOUSE: It's the same.
If you can prove that the intention to do so is to try to intimidate him, to intimidate witnesses, or to tarnish his views in the eyes of the grand jury, affecting the grand jury and the actions or decisions they are making, these are the counts of the indictment.
I don't know why the White House didn't stop these things.
But it looks like every time they turn around they are sending out another invitation to Mueller to have him write this down and see if he can add a count.
Matthews: Do you know which room they put the safe in? I`m serious!
WHITEHOUSE: Maybe (INAUDIBLE)
Matthews: You have to start thinking-you have to start focusing on this little project of interest, President . . . . . . Whitehouse: Didn't abscam start with the safe?
Matthews: Yes, the president wants to keep it-the president's lawyer said don't open the safe.
The guy named Ty Cobb outside said open it. Where are you?
WHITEHOUSE: I think there-there may be real stocks to protect the president of the United States from the need to distribute too many documents.
I totally agree with you that it is ridiculous for the White House to care about these issues.
So at least there is a reasonable reason that this is an excuse, and in this case, the rest is that we just don't want you to see the file.
This is not a good place for the White House.
Looks like a cover up, looks like an obstacle, looks like an obstacle.
Matthews: even during this dangerous presidential term, Rhode Island Senator Sheldon Whitehouse, it's always great that you play.
I would like to thank Ken Vogel for congratulating him, the current White House journalist Heidi prizbra. Right?
Yes.
Matthews: It's quite big.
Anyway, come up-see you in the gallery there.
We'll see you talking to Sarah outside.
Special adviser Robert Mueller is working on Facebook records-
This is something exciting-account (ph)
Russian agents trying to influence the 2016 election
They're going to Facebook.
They want to know who is paying for these ads and the money goes with the money.
A big question for investigators is whether these Russian agents are getting help from Jared Kushner or from someone else inside?
Where did someone guide them to fight, a micro-analysis of the campaign, a micro-campaign that we're so familiar?
Who tells Russian sky if you want, how to find voters they need to identify in states like Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania?
How do they know where to send the message?
In the United States, who on our side told them?
Like "American ".
"Also, as we have heard, politics was the frontier and center of the Emmy Awards last night.
Of course, this is an important night for women and minorities.
But what's funny about the ex?
We'll see Sean Spicer joking at the White House.
I'm with him. go out and make a fool of myself.
You deserve it.
Another day, another nickname for Trump.
He's calling Kim Jong Un. un “rocket man.
"It's interesting to say, but what's the impact there?
You know, the war started after the nameINAUDIBLE)
"Lyin' Ted" "Little Marco" "curved hillside"-well, the risk is higher now.
I think he thinks it's like Trump's opposition to North Korean dictators in his campaign.
Anyway, in the end, let me finish tonight's show with the Trump watch.
"This is a hard ball. here's the action. (
Business break)
Matthews: President Trump said he is considering a military parade on July 4, inspired by the Bastille Day celebrations he saw in France earlier this year.
Earlier today, Trump mentioned the idea in a photo with French President Macron. Let`s watch. (
Start Video Editing)
US President Donald Trump: I would like to say that I am your guest at the end of the bus day.
This is one of the greatest parades I have ever seen.
This is an amazing thing.
To a large extent, because of what I have witnessed, we may be doing something similar on Pennsylvania Avenue, Washington, on July 4. I don`t know.
We will have to try to surpass it.
We look forward to doing so.
I'm talking to General Kelly and all the people involved and we'll see if we can do that this year, but we'll definitely start doing it. (END VIDEO CLIP)
Matthews: Kim Jong Un
He also likes the parade.
We will be back soon. (
Business break)(
Start Video Editing)REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D)
California: We asked Facebook for more information.
We received some information but there were a lot of questions that were not answered. (END VIDEO CLIP)
Matthews: Welcome back to hard ball.
This is the ranking of the California House Intelligence Committee member Adam Shifu's influence on Russia on Facebook during the 2016 general election.
We now know that Russian events linked to the Kremlin have purchased ads worth $100,000 on Facebook.
The Wall Street Journal reported last week that the social media giant provided Miller with information about the special adviser, including-quote-"copy of the ad and account details for the purchase of the ad, the account for the purchase of them, and the target criteria they use.
Russia's propaganda efforts in 2016 could lead investigators in one direction.
Vanity Fair reports that "the executor is interested in the role of the current president's son, Jared Kushner --in-
He hailed the efforts of the Trump campaign online.
The article cites what Kushner said in an interview with Forbes magazine in November 2016: "I called someone who worked for a technology company I worked, let them give me a tutorial on how to use Facebook microtargeting.
Kushner denied any collusion with Russia.
There is no evidence that he has anything to do with Russia.
Chris Smith wrote the Vanity Fair report with Clint Watt, a former FBI agent and national security analyst at MSNBC.
Clint, I would like to ask you about this new report from the New York Times, and I think it was the agents who searched the Manafort's house and his house told him that he would be charged.
Clint watts, national security analyst at MSNBC: Yes, it sounds like the weakest link in the Trump team investigation, and they take this opportunity to push Manafort in one direction or another.
I think they may be looking for ways to investigate to get some insider information.
Another thing we have to keep in mind is that the Manafort survey seems to be the most advanced component of the entire Trump team.
Everything we have heard in the past, even back to the winter of 2016, we found that Manafort is constantly appearing in these stories, and the reasons he was investigated are both his economic ties with Ukraine, there was also his deal during the campaign.
So I was not surprised that they pushed him first.
I'm really curious about what his reaction was when he was mentioned.
MATTHEWS: Well, when you're told you're going to be charged, I think that's going to get you a little excited about that, isn't it? WATTS: Yes.
Matthews: let me go to Chris Smith and talk about another breakthrough story, which is Facebook.
What do we know?
In my opinion, the first thing we heard was the news that Facebook and other Russian companies were leaning in the election last year.
We are now starting to wonder who is their internal staff and, as we have always wanted to know, who helps them target, if you wish, who is their observer who tells us on the hillside where to bomb the Japaneseheld island?
I think my fatherin-
There was a time when the law had the job.
How did you do it?
Who said that?
It's not necessarily Trump's people.
One thing I noticed.
In the United States, there are people who are willing to work for Russians and for money, including Manafort, rather than for ideological parties.
Chris Smith, Vanity Fair: That's right.
Matthews: they are ready.
These guys have money and they take it.
So, what do we know about who will be their observers, and just Facebook's actions against voters in this regard? SMITH: Exactly.
Journalists and investigators have known for months that Facebook, Google, Twitter are the conduit for fake news and are-
Clinton's propaganda
Mueller summoned these latest developments from Facebook to allow him to dig deeper into these channels, who paid for them and how complex the goals were.
It should make Trump think it's a 400-
Somewhere in his bedroom. MATTHEWS: Yes.
Smith: The History of the campaign, you talk to investigators, you talk to people who have worked in Eastern Europe, and yes, the Kremlin and their middle men have paid for it, and gave general instructions, but in Moldova, in Montenegro, they have local agents whether they try to make an impact in the election.
They asked people to translate it into vernacular and target it in a way that they thought worked.
As you said, there is no direct link between Kushner and Russia's propaganda, electoral intervention.
But the real benefits and technology are integrated.
Is it possible that Russia has learned how to target Africa
American women in Michigan watch a large number of MSNBC by watching?
This is possible, of course.
But when you make the Trump campaign proud to praise these swing voters-Cambridge Analytics, a big data company they join, you claim to be able to develop the psychological traits of voters.
Many people play in the same space.
The Russians are of course opportunistic.
In the chaos of the Trump campaign, will the Trump people inadvertently bring them in or help them?
This is also possible, of course.
Matthews: let me do a general analysis in Clint.
Clint, because we don't know, we have to trust you in many things.
But I think American.
"I'm trying to catch up.
I'm three years behind now.
I'm in the fourth year now.
Watts: That's right.
Matthews: But that's true.
I spoke to a friend of mine who said top intelligence men thought it was a very accurate description of how Russians were recruited during the Cold War.
I would also like to know-one day someone will write that the Trump campaign has found enough votes in these four or five states, industrial votes, the right attitude they can adjust, the buttons they can press to influence people to say, you know, forget everything you care about Trump, bad language, bad attitude towards women, lack of any preparation for work, A lot of what he said was stupid.
The only important thing in this game is to send a message to the agency.
Someone can do this.
It could be Trump.
Did he get any help?
What do we know?
Does he get any help with microtargeting specific groups of people affected by this anti-attitude
Republicans in the primary, Democrats in the general, are willing to say, no, no, will I try this new guy? WATTS: Yes.
This is not complicated in terms of micro-positioning.
If I want, I can have a micro-aim on Russia from my house.
Can a Russian do it?
Watts: Yes, absolutely.
I can tell you this.
The Russians are in the United States. S.
The base of the audience returned to 2015.
They are concerned about social issues.
The government, the race, all the way to 2016.
But I think the key thing is that the Russians did what the others didn't do.
They invaded the material and released it to the wild so that the Kushner digital movement, Cambridge analysis, or any other political movement cited the final set by WikiLeaks Didi and DCLeaks Didi
If anyone quotes Bernie Sanders, it's a story driven by the DNC leak through Russian hackers.
So all the nuclear fuel behind all of these effects on social media is finally back in the hands of Russian hackers.
In terms of microtargeting and many companies that think they can do all their psychotherapy, I equate it with digital snake oil.
I have seen these companies before and have worked with them in the field of counter-terrorism in an attempt to undermine and combat violent extremism.
They can never really achieve these goals.
MATTHEWS: Well, if the poll's election is correct, he can live for the election, go out for dinner in the next three years, and then he's tested again, he blew it, and no one's expert was him anymore.
But you're right.
Trump looks like a genius in this campaign.
We think he got some help.
Of course, if he runs for re-election, we'll see if it's true the next time he runs again.
We'll see if he still has hot hands and if there's any help from Russia.
Thank you, Chris Smith.
Thank you, Clint Watt, as always.
Next: President Trump may be 3,000 miles away, but he took a central spot in last night's Emmy and became the target area.
As we all know, it is a politically colorful evening and a night of active celebration of women and diversity.
This is a hard ball. where is the action. (
Business break)(
Start Video Editing)
Host Stephen Colbert "Late Show by Stephen Colbert": can anyone say how big the audience is?
You know what, Sean? (APPLAUSE)
Former White House Press Secretary Sean Spicer: it will be the biggest audience to witness Emmy awards in person and around the world. (LAUGHTER)COLBERT: Wow.
This can really soothe my fragile self. (LAUGHTER)
COLBERT: I can understand why he wants these people. (END VIDEO CLIP)
Matthews: Welcome back to hard ball.
Sean Spicer's surprise cameo is just the beginning of politics.
Cheer for Amy's nightLet`s watch it. (
Start Video Editing)
Actor John lysgo: I want to thank Winston Churchill.
In this crazy age, his life, even as an old man, is reminding us what the courage and leadership of the government really look like.
Unidentified women: in 2017, we still refuse to be controlled by gender discrimination, selfishness, lying, and hypocrisy. (
Cheers and applause)
Colbert: unlike the President, the Emmy won a popular vote.
Actor Alec Baldwin: Finally, sir.
This is your Emmy, president. (END VIDEO CLIP)
MATTHEWS: Well, it's also an important night for women and ethnic minorities, Seriously speaking, timely topics, including domestic abuse-boys, do they use the "big lie" "a great limited series-dystopian society, and of course, in the great novel The Story of the maid, A black woman tells the story in "no Lord.
Let's have a look. (
Start Video Editing)
Actor Reese Witherspoon: It's an incredible year for women on TV.
Can I say, take women to the front of their own stories and make them heroes of their own stories.
Actress Nicole Kidman: We have a big bang on domestic abuse. (
Cheers and applause)
Kidman: It's a complex and insidious disease.
It exists far beyond our imagination.
Actress Elizabeth Moss: Margaret Atwood, oh my God, thank you for everything you did in 1985 and for everything you continue to do for all of us. (APPLAUSE)
Writer/actress Lena White: finally, but of course not, at least my gay family, I saw each and every one of you. (
Cheers and applause)(END VIDEO CLIP)
Matthews: Ted Johnson, senior editor of Variety newspaper, has joined me now.
Ted, I thought it was something else.
I think the story of the maid is a bit avant-garde --
Pioneer novels were mainstream a few years ago.
It won the drama.
"Big Lie" is fascinating in many ways, but it really talks about spouse violence, bad guys, bad people and women for social reasons, I don't want to come out and say it's a terrible and dangerous marriage I'm in.
Ted Johnson, editor-in-chief of variety: Yes.
I think what we're seeing is the results of having all these wired networks, all these streaming networks, broadcast networks.
Matthews: It's not censored like the Internet. (CROSSTALK)
Johnson: Not at all.
There is more freedom. MATTHEWS: Yes.
Johnson: I think you might see more responses on the radio network.
"This Is Us," and I think this is largely a response to the competition for streaming media, which is a must
Watch TV or watch TV.
Matthews: What do you think of Spicer?
We had a big dispute here.
How can you knock on the door if he's a flack and wants to make fun of himself being flack?
He's making fun of his B. S.
Crowd size.
He made fun of himself there. Go ahead.
Well, yes.
All this is going backwards today.
I have heard that Emmys has been criticized a lot for having him.
Is Trump normalized?
Is Spicer normalized?
The question is, if Spicer wants a television career, he will be asked what he said on the podium.
Matthews: I don't think he got away with it.
He walked back and went back inside.
By the way, it's good for Stephen Colbert.
There's a good man.
I thought of the "front line" of Mostel from scratch, and he said, I like when good things happen.
Stephen Colbert, he's a good guy. (CROSSTALK)
Oh, of course, of course, yes.
This is met.
Met.
This is the whole idea. has the Emmy been politicized?
If that's not the case, you'll want to know what's going on.
The host is Stephen Colbert.
Matthews: I know.
Talk about chorus lines with guys who mix up with men and women to make rocket girl numbers.
You didn't see it 20 years ago. JOHNSON: No. No.
But people are looking forward to it now.
Matthews: I think it's crazy.
Anyway, I think the United States speaks in different ways.
Culture is a way for you to tell the truth, sometimes better than politics, don't you think?
Thanks for Ted Johnson from Variety.
Johnson: Thank you.
Matthews: Next: President Trump will deliver his first major speech to the United StatesN.
But he has attracted world leaders on Twitter.
He announced his nickname this weekend.
Isn't this Harry's thing from high school?
Mr. Harry in high school
President, that's how you behave, calling the North Korean dictator a bit scary-he gave this guy a nickname.
It's not Marco, it's not the United Nations.
I think, thanks to Elton John, it's a rocket man now.
You're watching the ball. (
Business break)(
Start Video Editing)
US President donald trump: I noticed Chuck Schumer yesterday with fake tears ).
I want to ask who his acting coach is.
We don't have enough energy for Jeb Bush.
Ted and Marco are lying down.
Crazy Bernie, he's a crazy guy.
I was hit by Pocahontas, it was Elizabeth Warren.
I said Mitt couldn't run.
He choked like a dog and walked on stage like a penguin.
Have you seen it? Like a penguin. (END VIDEO CLIP)
Chris Matthews, MSNBC host: like a penguin.
Ladies and gentlemen, that is the president of the United States.
In any case, Donald Trump has given a nickname to everyone of his political opponents.
Now, he's using the same high school number, and in fact, the high school Harry number is one of the most dangerous characters in the world, don't we agree?
What may be wrong now?
He made fun of them.
What do you think?
Anyway, yesterday morning, he sent a message about the unstable Kim Jong Un of North Korean leaders.
I spoke to South Korean President Moon Jae-in last night and asked him how the rockets were doing.
Long gas pipelines formed in North Korea. Too bad.
Well, there is no long gas pipeline.
There are many other problems.
Let's bring the hard ball round table.
Alexi McCammond is the deputy news editor for "Axios" and, of course, Philip Rucker is the White House director for the "Washington post.
Esther Herndon is a national political reporter for The Boston Globe.
Who is the youngest here?
I don't know. maybe you are.
But I tell you, you must remember high school.
High school is called the country.
You have to endure the personal genius of the bruises of the bad guys standing around, they just think about what's wrong with your body if they can find you, what problem do you have to draw a circle on it and make fun of you again and again until you feel the pain.
Now they do it by texting.
They are one of them at Donald Trump.
He is that kind of person.
Alexi mccammond, deputy news editor for AXIOS: It's a problem of youth distraction.
Yes, it's a distraction for teenagers.
For him, it was totally unhelpful to come up with a nickname-Matthews: What did he get by calling the message Elton John's music title?
White House director, Washington Post, Philip Luke: I mean, this is the brand.
Matthews: Who does this help?
RUCKER: Well, I think it would be helpful for him to bring up these heartfelt names to communicate with the American people, which, in his view, are inherent weaknesses of the other person.
In this case, his strength is the rocket plant, which is his weakness because he is unstable.
He shot left and right.
You know, he wanted to use that.
Matthews: if someone wears a suicide belt, would you make fun of them in person?
Is that your strategy?
Esther heendon, national political correspondent for The Boston Globe: I don't think it's even his strategic thinking about North Korea.
I think that's what he thinks his base wants from him.
Matthews: Yes.
So, all for this?
Herndon: As we 've seen during his presidency, it's his core voter base, they're proud that they're politically incorrect people who like the President
This is an affirmation of them.
That's why he did this throughout the campaign.
Matthews: But there's another world, including people with nuclear weapons.
This is not the Buffalo Bob and peanut gallery.
In addition to his feat, there is another world.
He wants to entertain.
Matthews: they want to have fun?
He wants to entertain.
Matthews: Do you think his people are not worried about Kim Jong Un?
A little UN?
This should be the case.
Okay.
It's just talking. you know what?
His strategy was not reflected.
We should have a look at what Nikki Haley is talking about and what Matisse is doing.
Trump's tweet distracted teenagers.
Matthews: What about them?
Are they more mature?
Yes, of course.
They have a stronger stand in words.
Matthews: I think Nikki Haley always looks more mature than the president.
Also on Sunday, the president forwarded a video of one of his supporters.
The video, which was tampered with, pieced together footage of Trump's golfing, was then thought to have hit the back of Hillary Clinton's head, causing her to fall.
Hillary Clinton's video comes from 2011.
Among those angered by the image of violence, there is also Senator Dianne Feinstein, who grew up in my book.
In a statement today, she said a video released by the president on Sunday morning described the attack on Hillary Clinton, which was shocking and disgusting.
Each of us should be offended by the president's message of revenge and frankness and danger not only to Secretary Clinton, but to all women.
Do your job well when you grow up.
She also called it a misconduct by the President of the United States, and I think the senator is a bit redundant.
Is this obviously inappropriate?
But Alexi, you are the woman here, what do you think of the President's beating in the campaign, making fun of his alleged attack on her, because he has been watching her like this in the debate, what else is he doing?
Okay.
The optical system is certainly not very large, and I spoke to the Democratic assistant on the mountain today, saying it was an unprecedented absurdity.
Matthews: of course.
I think that reflects what many Democrats think.
It has 33,000 responses on Twitter, and many of them say, you know, it encourages violence against women, and Trump is a bully.
Matthews: is this to make up for his deal with DACA?
I don't know. (CROSSTALK)
Matthews: right wing, alt-
Well, I think since he is (INAUDIBLE)
I think he's also worried that Hillary is in the news right now because her memoir, What Happened, is making headlines and is being interviewed.
Matthews: It's also a cost.
Yes, it is.
But he didn't like her outside.
He wanted to create an opportunity-Matthews: Oh, I see.
He did not want her to be successful with limited changes.
It's really smart because at least he can't give her the book?
He's the president. Yes.
Herndon: I think it's even part of the big strategy and I'm going to be cautious.
I mean, we 've seen him forward some videos that he sometimes thinks are interesting.
I mean, I used these alt-
Those who really went deep into the world of the Reddit internet, who thought the president was one of them, not just because-Matthews: Oh, he is.
Herndon: not just because-Matthews: He's one of the 400-pound people he makes fun of lying in bed, there's no real life outside the basement, he's the president of the United States.
He got up in the morning and said, I like the pancakes this morning, it looks like the kids in the basement made, Mom, can I get the pancakes?
Okay, you have pancakes.
Then he sat down. he was the president of the United States and the whole government supported him.
He's behind the Republican Party.
He`s got the U. S.
The military has so many communications personnel with him, but they are doing so.
Okay.
It also reflects that John Kelly may not be as tight a ship as he wants, you know?
He can't control this guy.
Okay.
He's not Matthews: so, Kelly has to get up early and catch up with him tweeting. (CROSSTALK)
Elizabeth, your boss? INAUDIBLE)
Get up at 6: 30 a. m. and go to the New York Times. she's not my boss.
Matthews: You're the same as the Washington Post.
Marty Barron.
Matthews: I heard it.
Get up at 6: 30 in the morning and get the New York Times first, not the post, just read it as the cover.
Luke: By the way, he also read The Washington Post.
Matthews: he looked at the front page and stopped on the fold and Twitter.
RUCKER: He will also react to TV news in the morning.
"Fox and Friends", of course we know.
But "Morning Joe" on MSNBC also turned on CNN.
He likes to see what dialogue looks like.
Matthews: why did he see it (ph)
"Joe in the morning "?
They don't like each other very much.
Luke: he has a long and complicated history with JoJo.
Matthews: It's complicated.
Anyway, the round table is with us.
Next, these three people will tell me something I don't know.
This is a hard ball. where is the action. (
Business break)
MATTHEWS: Well, House Minority Party Leader Nancy Pelosi was attacked by the left by her possible immigration deal with President Trump.
Pelosi and other Democratic lawmakers held a meeting in San Francisco earlier today to call on immigration activists to walk in and interrupt the event by passing the DREAM Act. (
Start Video Editing)REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA)
They are very important people to us. They are our goals. We are very important people.
I'm glad to give in -(
Protesters shout)(END VIDEO CLIP)
MATTHEWS: Well, today's protesters disagree with the deal, saying that just a big word, focusing on Dreamers, the president and congressional leaders will exclude the other 11 million people who are illegally entering the country.
We will be back soon. (
Business break)
Matthews: We're back for the round table.
Alexei told me something I don't know.
MCCAMMOND: So, Democrats know that Republicans can't win the House if they draw a constituency.
A new Democratic super political action committee is spending $100 million, or hoping to raise $100 million for 12 states to help the Democrats win state seats.
So, one-DoNews: this will wait until 2022.
Yes, yes, I believe it is 2021.
So, Democratic fundraiser Matthews: No, but they won't be running until 2022.
Yes, yes.
But a Democracy Fund.
Lather told me that the money Democrats spend on Jon OSF's campaign could have been used to help Democrats win five congressional seats in Pennsylvania.
So, we shouldCROSSTALK)
Matthews: Thank you.
But it's Monday morning.
They're just listening. Go ahead.
So, Alabama, pay attention to the following.
Next Tuesday, Alabama will hold a special Senate election.
President Trump will be there later this week.
The important thing to find-Matthews: Moore is still strange.
RUCKER: Well, Trump's support for the current senator is odd, but Moore is backed by Steve Bannon from Sarah Palin, the other leading member of the Trump alliance.
Matthews: Moore will win.
Let's take a look.
He leads the polls.
Matthews: ASTD?
Herndon: Speaking of Trump's strength and brand, the dictionary has been trying to keep up with all these new words he has added to his English dictionary.
The editor of The Dictionary of Oxford University Press has identified 50 new words related to Trump, including Trump's tantrums and Trump's strostrophe (ph).
Matthews: Oh, my God!
I haven't heard of these, but they are already in the book now.
Alexei mccarmond, thank you very much.
Phil Luke, as always.
Support Herndon as always.
When we get back, let me finish tonight's show with the "Trump Watch.
I think you will like this tonight.
He may not.
But he can learn from it. he can always.
He can always learn from the Trump watch.
You're watching the ball. (
Business break)
Matthews: watch Trump, Monday, September 18, 2017.
I love what actor John Lisgo said last night at the Emmy.
He was talking about Winston Churchill, the great leader of World War II, who played in a later TV series, the Crown.
In this crazy age, even as an old man, his life reminds us what the courage and leadership of the government are like, says Lithgow.
There is no need for him to say or do anything. we all know what he is saying, but it has not been fully said yet.
One sure thing Donald Trump has done, which must be clear to all, right, left, and middle, is the standard for lowering human dignity.
Those who voted for him sought and approved it, didn't they?
They made him president.
When you were young, didn't your parents tell you not to make fun of other people's appearance?
Isn't this the most basic?
Isn't it as basic as Q &?
When you grow up, isn't your parents telling you not to swear to people who look different from you?
Even if you don't know what that means, shouldn't you call someone from a Mexican rapist?
Aren't you told not to hurt people and encourage others to hurt people?
Trump has been driving people out of his rally outside to encourage the police to treat them rudely.
This is part of his behavior, doing what you are taught not to do, let us face the reality, is the core of his behavior.
Where is courage?
Where is his leader?
Where is Winston Churchill of Donald Trump?
Hard ball now.
Thank you for being with us.
"Everything about Chris Hayes" is starting now.
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